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Post by giggin on Dec 18, 2005 8:47:05 GMT -5
I still refuse to believe that Snape “loved” Lily. But that's just me. I do hope, however, that it’s proven that Snape is some-what good after all. I think it is important that you put in quotes, the word love here. JKR is emphasizing the fact that the thing that Lord Voldemort does not possess, is Love. Love is going to turn out to be a major component in the fight against Voldemort in the end. I think with all the evidence leading to the fact that Lily was an excellent potions student, and that Severus never speaks ill of Lily to Harry, that by some chance Severus was indeed in 'Love' with her. I feel that this coupled with the idea of Love being a strong component in the fight against Lord Voldemort. Severus will help Harry in the end to defeat him and that Severus is one mighty powerful Wizard!!!!
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Post by squirrelywrath on Dec 18, 2005 18:09:24 GMT -5
giggin, I agree that the power to love is [glow=red,2,300]definately[/glow] going to be a key to the resolution of the series... but keeping in mind the original question and answer posed to Jo MA: Oh, here’s one [from our forums] that I’ve really got to ask you. Has Snape ever been loved by anyone?
JKR: Yes, he has, which in some ways makes him more culpable even than Voldemort, who never has. Okay, one more each! we know that he was loved, not that he loved in return while I can see how it would work to make a Lily/Snape ship I just don't want it
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Post by giggin on Dec 18, 2005 18:53:08 GMT -5
giggin, I agree that the power to love is [glow=red,2,300]definately[/glow] going to be a key to the resolution of the series... but keeping in mind the original question and answer posed to Jo MA: Oh, here’s one [from our forums] that I’ve really got to ask you. Has Snape ever been loved by anyone?
JKR: Yes, he has, which in some ways makes him more culpable even than Voldemort, who never has. Okay, one more each! we know that he was loved, not that he loved in return while I can see how it would work to make a Lily/Snape ship I just don't want it I see your point, but I just think that JK didn't want to give the rest away, because it would obviously give TOO much away. I'd be willing to accept this IF it were not too easy to be loved. Anyone is capable of *being* loved. I feel that a major point made in HBP, was that Voldemort wasn't capable of *loving*, and that it is important that a person is capable of doing so, not capable of *being* loved! So...this being said...I think that it would be very cool ...if JK made Snape's character so powerful that he has actually *loved* someone. As an added bonus, I want it to be Lily ;D! You don't, and that is fine with me ! I have noticed a lot of evidence that points to Lily ! Fun debate!
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Post by squirrelywrath on Dec 19, 2005 15:15:18 GMT -5
Anyone is capable of *being* loved. I feel that a major point made in HBP, was that Voldemort wasn't capable of *loving*, and that it is important that a person is capable of doing so, not capable of *being* loved! So...this being said...I think that it would be very cool ...if JK made Snape's character so powerful that he has actually *loved* someone. As an added bonus, I want it to be Lily ;D! You don't, and that is fine with me ! I have noticed a lot of evidence that points to Lily ! Fun debate! I think it is safe to say in OotP we see that the dark Lord had never *been* loved, you say that anyone is capable of *being* loved, then why was he seemingly denied such a simple pleasure? I actually like the notion that Snape will have loved someone himself... either way the notion that love has marked his life adds a nobility to his character. and as Jo said that makes him more culpable for his actions. a Tragic hero. I don't know why I resist the notion that it is Lily, when as you say there is alot of evidence to support this theory.
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Post by winky22 on Dec 19, 2005 15:29:35 GMT -5
I still refuse to believe that Snape “loved” Lily. But that's just me. I do hope, however, that it’s proven that Snape is some-what good after all. But I came here to mention that there’s a competition going on at Mugglenet; it involves the participant writing the opening to book 7. I, personally, am going to enter. You can get more info about it here: mugglenet.com/competitions.shtmlWe could make the opening all about Snape, like in the 2nd chapter of the HBP. LOL. To prove his “ goodness” or “ evilness.” You decide. I think i will enter too, thats if i get the time. I feel book 7 will start with a battle.
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Post by giggin on Dec 19, 2005 23:33:58 GMT -5
Oh yes...Sadly...I can not see that Voldemort was loved by anyone...but I certainly didn't say he was, nor did I say that it was a requirement. What I did say was that anyone was "capable" of being loved. I want to emphasize the difference here. Not everyone has that pleasure of *being* loved, and I do not presume to understand why J.K. Rowling denied him this simple pleasure. So...back to the part that is of the utmost importance...being capable of *loving*. I do not believe Voldemort is capable of loving. I do however think Severus IS and...I am happy to see that you agree ! One day I will try to post a few bits and pieces to show why I think it is Lily he may have loved. But I don't have any time in the next few days . By the way...I'm not a shipper...I just love to analyze J.K.R's characters, and I really enjoy Snape's character for obvious reasons! I didn't even know what the term shipper meant until I heard it somewhere on Mugglecast, and had to look it up on Mugglenet. I thought the only ships there were, were on my sig !
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Post by allegro on Dec 20, 2005 11:25:39 GMT -5
The evidence that Snape loved Lily can be, for instance, that he was really sorry that the Potters were endangered and what Dumbledore said was true.
Why was he sorry if he hated James, you may ask.
Because if he really loved Lily, wishing her well, he would feel sorry that he endangered her making her unhappy. Her lack of happiness would be danger aimed at people she loved (Harry, James). So this could make Snape feel sorry for James (also the life debt Snape owed to James can count).
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Post by TigerSnake on Dec 28, 2005 0:22:11 GMT -5
Has anyone mentioned Snape's Patronus?
I remember JKR saying that if she said what was Snape's Patronus and boggart were it would be giving too much away. (I can't find the exact quote.)
Anyway, I'm not sure what the boggart is, but I doubt any, or at least too many, people know what's Snape’s boggart.
However, the Patronus is something else. The order members MUST know what’s Snape’s Patronus: But my question is: how could it give something away? The Order members should've realized he was evil or good when they saw his Patronus.
The only reason I can think of is that only Harry and the reader would know Snape's true loyalties if we've learned of Snape's Patronus earlier. But I can't think of anything that we would know of Snape, which the Order members don't know about, that could be his Patronus. I'm sure (or hope) we'll learn what's his Patronus in Book 7.
Well, for the time being, any clues, ideas?
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Post by legally blonde on Dec 28, 2005 0:35:41 GMT -5
But my question is: how could it give something away? The Order members should've realized he was evil or good when they saw his Patronus. The only reason I can think of is that only Harry and the reader would know Snape's true loyalties if we've learned of Snape's Patronus earlier. But I can't think of anything that we would know of Snape, which the Order members don't know about, that could be his Patronus. I'm sure (or hope) we'll learn what's his Patronus in Book 7. Well, for the time being, any clues, ideas? Hmmm, really interesting...and I agree...I think that's the reason that we don't know what Snape's patronus is. If we knew, we would know if he's evil or not. I just had a thought though...what if someone in the Order or outside..knows Snape's patronus and the whole truth about Snape..? Maybe Snape's not working alone? Whatever side he's on.. I don't know though...but we'll know in book 7...
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Post by TigerSnake on Dec 28, 2005 0:39:00 GMT -5
Hmmm, really interesting...and I agree...I think that's the reason that we don't know what Snape's patronus is. If we knew, we would know if he's evil or not. I just had a thought though...what if someone in the Order or outside..knows Snape's patronus and the whole truth about Snape..? Maybe Snape's not working alone? Whatever side he's on.. I don't know though...but we'll know in book 7... That would be cool if someone is working with Snape. But that Patronus! It's bugging me! LOL. What could it be?!
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Post by legally blonde on Dec 28, 2005 0:43:32 GMT -5
LOL, it's bugging me too...especially because JKR said that it will be important..
Hmm, and what about the boggart...I have no idea...
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Post by allegro on Dec 28, 2005 4:08:42 GMT -5
I'm for the thought that Dumbledore is much closer with the Hog's head bartender than other people think. I guess Aberforth stays 'unknown' because he doesn't want to link him to his spying as the bartender (and drunk people tell interesting truths).
Snape's patronus? Maybe something connected to Dumbledore?
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Post by legally blonde on Dec 28, 2005 10:44:40 GMT -5
I agree Allegro. I think Aberforth will play a bigger part in the last book. JKR has said that there will be no new character introduced in the last book, so I think a character we have met or heard about, but not gotten to know that well, will play a much bigger part. I think Aberforth might be that person...
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Post by allegro on Dec 28, 2005 11:44:43 GMT -5
I'm glad that you agree. It has always been strange for me that Dumbledore has a brother and he was never properly introduced. Dumbledore appreciates love, so he should have some contacts with his brother... and I believe he has them, he's often out for a drink
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Post by winky22 on Dec 28, 2005 14:01:55 GMT -5
Yes mauybe Snape and Aberforth are on the same side and he knows the truth about Snape, maybe Snape's patronus has changed into a Pheonix since the death of Dumbledore.
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Post by TigerSnake on Dec 28, 2005 16:06:58 GMT -5
Yes mauybe Snape and Aberforth are on the same side and he knows the truth about Snape, maybe Snape's patronus has changed into a Pheonix since the death of Dumbledore. Ah true! But something about his previous patronus (if it changed) would've given away too much. But I actually love the idea of Snape and Aberforth working together! It's a cool idea.
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Post by winky22 on Dec 28, 2005 16:41:02 GMT -5
Maybe Snape's Patronus is Lily! Can Patrounus' be people?
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Post by TigerSnake on Dec 28, 2005 17:05:10 GMT -5
Maybe Snape's Patronus is Lily! Can Patrounus' be people? LOL. I doubt. But if it was, then everyone would've known he was good.
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Post by giggin on Dec 28, 2005 19:50:47 GMT -5
Yes mauybe Snape and Aberforth are on the same side and he knows the truth about Snape, maybe Snape's patronus has changed into a Pheonix since the death of Dumbledore. This is not a bad idea! It may be probable, and it will strength my theory on the fact that Fawkes will prove Severus is good ;D! I can't wait for book 7!!!!
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Post by legally blonde on Dec 28, 2005 20:44:52 GMT -5
Yea, I love the idea that a Phoneix is Snape's patronus.. Phoenixes are my favorite magical creature... I would have to guess that if Snape is indeed working with someone, that someone is NOT going to be someone who is easy to notice. That's also why I think it's Aberforth. He's not close enough to Harry, The Order or anyone special at Hogwarts. That way Snape can stay as an undercover spy Oh, I can't wait untill book 7...
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