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Post by winky22 on Aug 6, 2005 16:08:00 GMT -5
[/img]What do points make??You made me laugh out loud Winky22.. I remember reading that part when I was in the park at a picnic,and I threw the book on the grass and got really upset that he had done that,I went off and played a game of footie with the kids,and then cooled off,and picked it up and carried on reading,and then re-read it again that night,and came to a totally different conclusion to the one I had when I originally read it,I now do think that under no circumstancies would DD EVER plead,he stood up against LV,and I am sure that he and Snape understood each other when they "gazed" at each other...Also,why didnt Snape kill Harry???He could off,I mean,he could have killed Hermoine,Flitwick,but he didnt,if he was a cold,callous killer,then why not just go out and be ruthless,the book is very cleaverly written,and all credit to JK,even though at the time I wanted to have a small word with her.... [/quote] [glow=red,2,300]Prizes![/glow] it took me a while to realise what you where saying! I make you laugh out load because i am a complete nutter and a bit of loony mixed in. Your right he save Flitwick,Hermione and Luna they might have got hurt in the battle. He could have killed Harry eaisly but he didn't, i just want Snape and Harry to be friends.
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Post by TigerSnake on Aug 6, 2005 16:16:08 GMT -5
LOL. I doubt Harry and Snape will be friends. But yeah, Snape could've easily killed Harry. He could've stun him and take him to LV too. But he didn't. And people say he's bad...
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Post by abtibbet on Aug 6, 2005 17:07:21 GMT -5
I am going to play devils advocate here.. I think Snape IS working for the dark Lord. Ultimately a Slytherin will always save his own neck, and that is exactly what he did. If he was working with Ddore, he would have protected him,not killed him. I don't believe that at all. Check out my sig, if he was a person trying to save his own neck he wouldn't have stood infront of them, protecting them. For all he knew Lupin could have pounced on him any second. He didn't just stand infront of them either he has his hands around them tightly (hmmm ;D). I think DD was dying maybe from his hand maybe from something else. Snape and DD are both excellent in reading minds (can't spell the word so i wrote the easy word out) when DD was pleading he was pleading for Snape to kill him. Do any us really think that DD would have pleaded for his life because i don't think he would. He was reading his mind "kill me, kill me" I can't hear it now. Remember Hagrid saying DD and Snape were having an aurgument and Snape didn't want to do something, he didn't want to kill DD but DD knew it had to be done, he just knew. I agree 100% with this. *thumbs up* Dumbledore always said that death is but the next adventure (or something to this effect) so I just can't believe he would plea for his life. That's just so un-Dumbledore. Seriously, though. That upset me so much when Dumbedore got so weak and was in pain... I was wondering what you guys thought when Snape said those two words, " Ava..." *shudders* When I read the part where Snape kills DD, I was in shock. So much so that I hardly did anything for like 2 days afterwards. When I got online, finally, I was so happy to see people still standing by him saying he's good. *tear* Actually, the thought of Snape being somehow good never crossed my mind until I started reading the theories in Mugglenet and CoSforums. Well, good thing for the Internet, huh? Same with me. After Snape killed Dumbledore, I was literally in shock (and in a pool of snot and tears as well!). I was depressed for days afterward, too. I actually thought Snape was purely evil until I read the theories on the CoS forums. Also,why didnt Snape kill Harry???He could off,I mean,he could have killed Hermoine,Flitwick,but he didnt,if he was a cold,callous killer,then why not just go out and be ruthless,the book is very cleaverly written,and all credit to JK,even though at the time I wanted to have a small word with her.... Well, isn't it said in the prophecy that Harry can only be killed by Voldemort and Voldemort can only be killed by Harry?
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Post by Awiana on Aug 7, 2005 6:58:26 GMT -5
I too was totally shocked and sad and angry when reading that awful part. I was crying so much, no other book has ever affected me so much. At first I really thought that it means that Snape is really on LV's side... but after I had read the book, calmed down a bit and read other people's opinions and theories about what happened I've changed my mind. I'll eat my hat if Snape isn't Dumbledore's man through and through!
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Post by winky22 on Aug 7, 2005 10:01:40 GMT -5
I don't believe that at all. Check out my sig, if he was a person trying to save his own neck he wouldn't have stood infront of them, protecting them. For all he knew Lupin could have pounced on him any second. He didn't just stand infront of them either he has his hands around them tightly (hmmm ;D). I think DD was dying maybe from his hand maybe from something else. Snape and DD are both excellent in reading minds (can't spell the word so i wrote the easy word out) when DD was pleading he was pleading for Snape to kill him. Do any us really think that DD would have pleaded for his life because i don't think he would. He was reading his mind "kill me, kill me" I can't hear it now. Remember Hagrid saying DD and Snape were having an aurgument and Snape didn't want to do something, he didn't want to kill DD but DD knew it had to be done, he just knew. I agree 100% with this. *thumbs up* Dumbledore always said that death is but the next adventure (or something to this effect) so I just can't believe he would plea for his life. That's just so un-Dumbledore. Seriously, though. That upset me so much when Dumbedore got so weak and was in pain... Well, isn't it said in the prophecy that Harry can only be killed by Voldemort and Voldemort can only be killed by Harry? Yes Dumbledore did say that death is the next big adventure, he just would not have begged for his life, never! I think that Harry could still be killed by someone else, if they wanted to kill him. he can be hurt though Snape could have crucioed him in HBP and in PoA he neally got the Dementors kiss so i think he could still be killed by another.
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Post by TigerSnake on Aug 7, 2005 11:05:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree. Harry can be killed by someone else or through other means. And as I've said before, Snape could've stun, not kill him, but stun him, grab him, and take him to LV. End of story. Everything could've ended that night. But no; it didn't. Snape spared him. Why? Can someone say: "Dumbledore's man through and through?"
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Post by abtibbet on Aug 7, 2005 11:55:11 GMT -5
Yes, I agree. If Snape was really on the "dark side" then he would have done something to Harry, like stunned him, then brought him to Voldemort, like you said. But, he didn't. It would have been so easy to do it that night, too! But Snape left him alone. Good evidence to prove Snape is still good.
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Post by squirrelywrath on Aug 7, 2005 16:04:13 GMT -5
ok, so I don't make a very good Devil's Advocate ;D especially since I want to add a pro Snape thought at the end when he does... kill do you notice that it is the first time we see Aveda Kedavra used when the person doesn't just die, Dumbledore is lifted and thrown back...( here is where I should argue that it is his hatred for Ddore that gives his curse extra punch) but I like to think it happened like that because Dumbledore knew it was coming
and on another note..I am so excited to see this made into a movie.. to see the first DADA class.. Snapes seductive whisper as he praises the dark arts... closely followed by " you don't have to call me Sir, professor"
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Post by abtibbet on Aug 9, 2005 15:16:47 GMT -5
I'm so excited to see HBP made into a movie, too. I hope they don't ruin it, though. And Alan has to play Snape!
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Post by squirrelywrath on Aug 11, 2005 0:42:11 GMT -5
I'm so excited to see HBP made into a movie, too. I hope they don't ruin it, though. And Alan has to play Snape! this movie without Alan would be a waste of money
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Post by ringo on Aug 14, 2005 12:34:50 GMT -5
I was working it out the other day,that by the time they get around to making HBP,Alan will be about 62,63,not that this matters a jolt,I mean he is now 59,but still the most gorge man on the planet to play Snape,but do you think that HE will want to play Snape in a few years time???I hope that he does,because as someone else has already said,a HP film with no Alan as Snape,is so not worth my £6..
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Post by abtibbet on Aug 14, 2005 16:29:17 GMT -5
That would be truly devastating if Alan decided he didn't want to continue portraying Snape. He must continue playing Snape. He must!
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Post by squirrelywrath on Aug 17, 2005 11:44:15 GMT -5
ok, I had a thought... let me know if I am off my rocker
suppose that when Snape killed Dumbledore, they were having a conversation through Occlumency... that would allow for Ddore to tell Snape to do it in order to protect Draco from needing to kill, and of course to save Harry can you hear the inside voices? Dumbledore trying so hard to convince Snape that killing him is the " right thing" Snape stubbornly refusing... finally Ddore breaks the silence" Severus, Please..."
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Post by abtibbet on Aug 17, 2005 13:22:30 GMT -5
ok, I had a thought... let me know if I am off my rocker suppose that when Snape killed Dumbledore, they were having a conversation through Occlumency... that would allow for Ddore to tell Snape to do it in order to protect Draco from needing to kill, and of course to save Harry can you hear the inside voices? Dumbledore trying so hard to convince Snape that killing him is the " right thing" Snape stubbornly refusing... finally Ddore breaks the silence" Severus, Please..." This is the theory I like the most out of all the one's I've heard so far. I so hope that that's what went on during Dumbledore's last minutes.
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Post by winky22 on Aug 17, 2005 13:33:39 GMT -5
ok, I had a thought... let me know if I am off my rocker suppose that when Snape killed Dumbledore, they were having a conversation through Occlumency... that would allow for Ddore to tell Snape to do it in order to protect Draco from needing to kill, and of course to save Harry can you hear the inside voices? Dumbledore trying so hard to convince Snape that killing him is the " right thing" Snape stubbornly refusing... finally Ddore breaks the silence" Severus, Please..." I think that is a good idea but i still think it was mentioned before Snape didn't want to do something Hagrid said and i think he just didn't want to kill DD.
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Post by EmmyMik on Aug 17, 2005 14:52:06 GMT -5
ok, I had a thought... let me know if I am off my rocker suppose that when Snape killed Dumbledore, they were having a conversation through Occlumency... that would allow for Ddore to tell Snape to do it in order to protect Draco from needing to kill, and of course to save Harry can you hear the inside voices? Dumbledore trying so hard to convince Snape that killing him is the " right thing" Snape stubbornly refusing... finally Ddore breaks the silence" Severus, Please..." I think that is a good idea but i still think it was mentioned before Snape didn't want to do something Hagrid said and i think he just didn't want to kill DD. I agree with this theory as well. I mean, in SS/PS, Dumbledore said something like, "To the organized mind, death is the next great adventure" (or something. I don't have my book handy). I'm sure Dumbledore *had* to be preparing for his own death, so why would he beg for his own life?
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Post by winky22 on Aug 17, 2005 15:10:20 GMT -5
I think that is a good idea but i still think it was mentioned before Snape didn't want to do something Hagrid said and i think he just didn't want to kill DD. I agree with this theory as well. I mean, in SS/PS, Dumbledore said something like, "To the organized mind, death is the next great adventure" (or something. I don't have my book handy). I'm sure Dumbledore *had* to be preparing for his own death, so why would he beg for his own life? I have said this so many times but DD would never ever beg for his life, ever! He wouldn't want Harry too see him beg for his life either. No way! There is no reason for him to beg for his life, i am just sure he was dying anyway and it was a way to fool Voldie even more about Snape. I am now thinking that someone else may know of the plan and knows Snape is Innocent of killing him purposely
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Post by EmmyMik on Aug 17, 2005 15:13:26 GMT -5
I am now thinking that someone else may know of the plan and knows Snape is Innocent of killing him purposely I can see that. I'd wonder who though. I also think the pensive would play an important role if this theory turns out to be true...
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Post by squirrelywrath on Aug 17, 2005 15:15:53 GMT -5
ok, I had a thought... let me know if I am off my rocker suppose that when Snape killed Dumbledore, they were having a conversation through Occlumency... that would allow for Ddore to tell Snape to do it in order to protect Draco from needing to kill, and of course to save Harry can you hear the inside voices? Dumbledore trying so hard to convince Snape that killing him is the " right thing" Snape stubbornly refusing... finally Ddore breaks the silence" Severus, Please..." I think that is a good idea but i still think it was mentioned before Snape didn't want to do something Hagrid said and i think he just didn't want to kill DD. does anyone have a chapter/ page number for this?
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Post by winky22 on Aug 17, 2005 15:24:48 GMT -5
I think that is a good idea but i still think it was mentioned before Snape didn't want to do something Hagrid said and i think he just didn't want to kill DD. does anyone have a chapter/ page number for this? Yes page 379 cont to p. 380, chapter Elf Tails
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